Slightly random Who vent...

[fogsblue]

I keep getting the impression that an oddly large number of people haven't watched S1 of NewWho. 

I saw this comment last night about how Rose never stood up to the Doctor. Yes, in S2 she didn't stand up to him directly as much, but then she didn't really need to, he was, by his standards, well behaved (except for that certain episode that I'm choosing to pretend doesn't exist).
However, in S1 she was constantly standing up to the Doctor. There's the obvious example of literally standing up to the Doctor in 'Dalek'. But there was early times when she tried to reason with him, say back in 'The Unquiet Dead' when she tried to explain that using corpses was wrong. Standing up to someone isn't always about direct confrontation though. Sometimes it's just about making them stop and think before they act. There's no guarantee they'll listen, and early on, the Doctor didn't really listen to Rose. 

Then of course there's the people out there that assume the relationship between the Doctor and Rose was always the same. Straight from the beginning. I don't see it. I S1 I see the development of their relationship. She joins the Doctor on the TARDIS as a friend, the romantic side of their relationship develops over the entire of the S1 arc. It's part of what made their story, both Nine/Rose and Ten/Rose so wonderful. S1 was the development of it, S2 was more like their enjoyment/acceptance of this. You saw both of them and their relationship grow. Rose did not fall in love with the Doctor instantly, despite the amount of people who seem to think she did.

The comparisons I see with Rose and Martha do not make sense for so many reasons. But the one that perplexes me the most is the one that said they both fell for the Doctor straight away. I love Martha, but I can understand her confusion with the Doctor. Forget lord of time, Ten was lord of mixed signals there. So Martha fell for him quickly, it still wasn't instant. 

In all honesty, I'm not going to touch the 'Rose is clingy/needy/whiny/jealous' issue right now. Nor the issue of 'the Doctor didn't love Rose'. Though really, maybe I missed something, but I DON'T GET IT!

Anywoo..... I'm done rambling for now...

Comments

[who-in-whoville.livejournal.com]

Is there a thread somewhere that is trying to compare Rose and Martha? I COMPLETELY agree with you. I see Nine/Rose as in development stage -- they KNOW they love each other, but in no way have they acted on it. Ten and Rose would have acted on it had they been together longer, but the absolutely were in a "relationship", albeit non-consummated (in my opinion -- that is what fanfic is for :D)

[fogsblue.livejournal.com]

It was something that started with this image.



Which I saw on tumblr then on Facebook. On FB a few people started going on about how both Rose and Martha both fell for the Doctor straight away and how annoying it was. And how accurate the image was. All I could think was that people never seem to connect that Rose and Nine are the same people as Rose and Ten. The reason Ten/Rose existed was because Nine/Rose developed that.

The part about Rose never standing up to the Doctor was on FB as well. I swear I really shouldn't go near anything Doctor Who related on FB it just frustrates me.

[kelkat9.livejournal.com]

Well, in my opinion, Rose did not go off with him in Season 1 because she was in love with him. She wanted adventure and he wanted a companion. Their relationship grew out of friendship. Martha, on the other hand, went with him partly because she was crushing on him and partly because of that scientific need to investigate. Donna went with him for the same reason as Rose did. There was not romance, just a close friendship.

I agree Rose in Season 1 stood up to him just as much as Martha or Donna. The difference is that she grew closer to him in a different way and she spent more time with him than Martha or Donna. I'm sure to someone who did not watch Season 1, it may appear she didn't stand up to him but in truth, he was different with her by then due to the change in their realationship. She didn't need to raise her voice to get her point across and honestly, they were so close that she just had to look at him and he got it. For instance, - the finger in jam incident.

If Donna or Martha had been with him longer, maybe there would have been less a confrontational approach to disagreements. Rose was confrontational in Season 1 and used a more subtle approach in Season 2.

There are some wild opinions out there in Whodom. The weirdest one I read was someone who accused Rose of raping the Tardis in PotW. Very very out there in my opinion. Shakes my head.

[fogsblue.livejournal.com]

That's what I was trying to say. Badly however. Thank you! :) Rose and the Doctor were friends, their friendship changed into a romantic relationship over time, as some naturally do.

And yep, Rose had to go for a confrontational approach in S1 because Nine wasn't ready to listen really. And needed to be told, loudly and directly. By the time he regenerated into Ten he was less likely to need someone to yell at him, just drop hints sometimes. I think the amount of time and the influence Rose had made it easier in S2 for her to just remind him sometimes about his behaviour.

For Martha and Donna, they didn't have the same amount of time with him. Also they followed after the loss of Rose which had a rather distinct impact on the Doctor's behaviour.

And raped the TARDIS? Really? Some people... Just... Sigh.

[bloose09.livejournal.com]

I totally agree with you on the progression of the Doctor and Rose's relationship throughout their time together. It was a journey and not something that came pre-packaged.

The weirdest one I read was someone who accused Rose of raping the Tardis in PotW. Uh, you are kidding! I do not understand this one at all. Yikes!

[bloose09.livejournal.com]

S1 was the development of it, S2 was more like their enjoyment/acceptance of this.
This! The Doctor and Rose's relationship is a love story, pure and simple.

Nor the issue of 'the Doctor didn't love Rose'. "There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends" *points to icon*

It is not proper for people to make assumptions about something they have never watched. It is very bad form.

[fogsblue.livejournal.com]

It is not proper for people to make assumptions about something they have never watched. It is very bad form.

That's the trouble!! Every time someone says something like any of that, I just want to smack them in the head with S1.

I mean in all honesty, I assume they watched it, but for some reason they just choose to pretend it doesn't exist in the story for some reason.

I think I said my feelings on *<-- Icon* the other day. Nine's death wasn't about saving the world/universe, he died so the woman he loved wouldn't.

[phoenixrising06.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I swear I'm watching a different show than other people, like with that comment I reblogged today. How do you watch this show and come away with that impression?

[fogsblue.livejournal.com]

That's what I keep wondering too. Read some of these things and just sit there wondering if I'm watching something else entirely.

I mean there's differing interpretations of things. And then there's just being completely blind to what is there.

[phoenixrising06.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if people don't pick criticisms out of a bowl.

*wonders what to say about Rose* *picks random piece of paper out of bowl and reads*

I hate her because she steals hats!

*Martha*

She hates trees!

*Donna*

She beat me in Scrabble!

[fogsblue.livejournal.com]

Hmm, you could be onto something. I wonder if it's how they decide they like characters too?

*why do I like River*
She smells nice.

*Amy*
She makes excellent scones.